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    •  
      CommentAuthorRed
    • CommentTimeNov 22nd, 2015 5:52pm (Nov 22nd 2015) edited
     

    Keeper of the hens

    So I posted a while back that we forgot to lock Zoey's pen and she pushed her way out. That night she was noisy at bedtime and wanted out, but after that it was normal...then a few days ago she CHEWED HER WAY OUT of the pen!!
    :gasp:
    So we went back to using her crate. I could slightly bend the bars on the pen with my fingers so they weren't that strong, but I couldn't bend the crate bars at all, and for the past three years she has slept in a crate. Um...she bent the door almost off its' hinges, chewed the bars and pulled several off. All this because we forgot to close the door ONE TIME!!

    I'm really ill at the moment, and this was a huge issue. There was no saying we would be able to find anything that could contain Zoey, and crate training would have to go right back to the beginning...this means it could be several weeks, if not months, until we are able to leave her alone, happily...and even then there's no saying the training would work, or that I'm well enough to do it.

    We talked about rehoming her. We talked about if it would the best for Zoey, for us and our other dogs. We racked our brains to think up solutions, and contacted a few companies who made proper heavy duty pens for breeders / rescue centres (price varies from £200 - £500 >__<), to ask if they could be used inside (waiting to hear back from them).

    Yesterday my dad drove out of his way to pick up some rolls of metal wire, only to find they didn't have the one we wanted (extra strong with tiny holes!). So we bought two sheets; an extra strong one with larger holes, and a more flexible one with 1cm gaps. Then he drove to our house to help fix up the pen.

    It took six hours to do. We had to measure and cut the wire, line them up, then add hundreds of cable ties to secure and keep them tight.


     photo diy6_zpsyiivv1sr.jpg

    Zoey did really well with my dad. She gets insanely over-excited around new people, but she was actually able to do all of her tricks with my dad in the same room, and she finally seemed to understand that when she had a toy in her mouth she got to say hello (that way she can't chew sleeves!)

     photo diy1_zpsdygy9uqq.jpg

    Zoey loves my dad so there was much kissing, and before we'd attached the wire she would stick her paws through the bars and scrabble at him :rolling:

     photo diy4_zpsrh216efr.jpg

    After a few hours she even settled down to chew her antler, even though we were doing exciting things and my dad was still there!

     photo diy2_zps0oqepgia.jpg

     photo diy3_zpsup5khq2f.jpg

    Here she is helping us tie up the loose ends :rolling:

     photo diy5_zpsyxnw1b2x.jpg

    The door was a pain as we had to make three different panels...we went through 300 cable ties by the end, my fingers are still sore today from tying them as tightly as possible!

     photo diy7_zps7suikb2c.jpg
    Zoey actually curled up on the chair and slept, she was really chilled :)

     photo diy9_zpsm6ivdozc.jpg
    •  
      CommentAuthorRed
    • CommentTimeNov 22nd, 2015 5:57pm (Nov 22nd 2015) edited
     

    Keeper of the hens

    It was really late by the time we were done, so my dad had to head off home and I got to adding dozens more cable ties to increase the strength

     photo diy10_zpsybj8a3e5.jpg

    The ends of some of the cable ties :smile:

     photo diy12_zpslzkh4loo.jpg

    And here she is checking out the pen (it's open here)

     photo diy14_zpszdaivqze.jpg

    She's happy going in and out of the pen, she doesn't mind being shut in and when Lyle walked Raiden last night I stayed in the locked pen with Zoey and she just curled up next to me on the couch and slept!

    I chose to reinforce a pen rather than a crate for a few reasons:
    - Zoey is happier in a pen, as she has something soft to lie on (carpet)
    - Pen's are bigger and give her more space
    - We can have the couch in the pen; this is Zoey's favourite place to sleep and should help her feel more comfortable and secure

    Today after taking her on a big walk we put her in the pen with a stuffed Kong and several chew toys, then left the house for exactly two minutes. She didn't even look up when we came in, and even when we unlocked the pen door she stayed on the couch emptying her Kong.

    The plan is to take things very slowly and crate train from scratch, as you would a new puppy / dog.

    Everything to do with the pen has to be positive; Zoey has the couch in there where she loves to sleep, she will get all her puzzle feeders in there etc. We'll get her used to being in the pen with us in there and with us out of the pen but in the same room. We'll increase the time she's in there, then start slowly slowly building up the time she's left alone in the pen. If at any time she acts anxious we'll back up a few steps.

    Zoey was extremely quick to crate train as a puppy, whereas Kasper (at 9 months old) was sensitive and we had to take it much slower. It took him over a month until we could leave him for four hours at a time, so with Zoey it could really take anywhere between a few days to a few months...or it could just not work at all. Who knows.

    We'll just take it one day at a time.
    •  
      CommentAuthorchief chicken
    • CommentTimeNov 22nd, 2015 6:59pm (Nov 22nd 2015)
     
    Well done Red: she's such a lucky girl to have you and Lyle (and Neil!). I'm sure she'll be fine now. You have such patience with her. :flowers: She's a good girl for not chewing the sofa, too!
    •  
      CommentAuthorneil
    • CommentTimeNov 23rd, 2015 9:57am (Nov 23rd 2015)
     

    Keeper of the hens

    Fingers crossed Scarlet, I know things have (and still are) really difficult at the moment but the dogs are a credit to you both (even if they are pillocks, they are lovable and really friendly and fun pillocks!), and without trivialising how much work you'll have to put in, if there's anyone that can make it work, it's you - I'm very proud of your training abilities!

    I was very impressed with Zoe's waving on command :)
    •  
      CommentAuthorKateb
    • CommentTimeNov 23rd, 2015 8:35pm (Nov 23rd 2015)
     
    I'm sorry you're feeling so ill Red - make sure you put your health first.
    Neil, you are a fab dad for spending your time helping to make the new pen.

    Zoey is a quick learner and it's a shame that her ability to pick things up so quick has been put to use escaping from the pen and undoing her training. However, hopefully that will also enable her to re-learn it again. Like your dad said, if anyone can do it, you can. It's great that you have Lyle for support too and I'm sure he'll do what he can to take some of the pressure off you.

    What's the difference between a crate and a pen? Is it that a pen doesn't have a top and if so, could she jump over the wall off the sofa?
    •  
      CommentAuthorRed
    • CommentTimeNov 24th, 2015 12:21am (Nov 24th 2015) edited
     

    Keeper of the hens

    CC she's not chewed the sofa YET! But she's also only been left for a few minutes with it, so it could end up being gnawed yet...she's only ever chewed furniture once though (and that was the armchair the other day!) so hopefully it was just a one off...
    Thanks man, it really was nice to see you :) I heard you especially liked Zoey's sneezing on cue hahahaha :P

    Posted By: KatebZoey is a quick learner and it's a shame that her ability to pick things up so quick has been put to use escaping from the pen and undoing her training

    :iagree::iagree::iagree::rolling:

    I can't believe we accidentally left her pen open ONE TIME, and this is the result!! After spending over three years of her life resting and sleeping in a crate / pen with absolutely *no* issues - aaaagh!

    A crate tends to be a small metal 'box'. They're usually only large enough for the dog to sit, turn around and lie stretched out in, although obviously you can buy a larger size for the breed of dog you have. The largest crate I've seen in the UK is Kasper's, which is either 48 / 52 inches - I forget which, and they have metal or plastic bases.

    Pens come in various sizes, shapes and heights. You can get ones with bases and some with attachable roofs. I like pens better for Zoey because they tend to be bigger, you can change their shape and what's in them, and a pen means Zoey can sleep on something soft. She can't have beds or blankets in her crate as she chews them, so it's nice for her to sleep on the carpet / (hopefully) couch! The biggest crate is around 5ft x 3ft, whereas Zoey's current pen is 6ft x 7ft...I'm hoping the fact she has more space and somewhere comfortable and familiar to sleep will give her less incentive to break out, and help her feel less 'contained'.

    After exercising her tonight (an hour of training and vigorous playing = shattered Zoey!) we left her with a Kong and an antler then snuck out the house for three minutes. When we got back she came to stand at the pen door (NO whining or anxious behaviour), then when I unlocked the pen she picked up her Kong, turned around and went to empty it on the couch in the pen! :smile:
    Thanks Kate :) She shouldn't be able to jump over the pen wall (famous last words...); the part of the couch that's up against the pen is also against a brick wall, so she can't jump over that, and the rest of the pen is 120cm high. Should be high enough to contain the whirlwind, but who knows?!
    •  
      CommentAuthorneil
    • CommentTimeNov 24th, 2015 4:28pm (Nov 24th 2015) edited
     

    Keeper of the hens

    Posted By: RedThanks man, it really was nice to see you :)I heard you especially liked Zoey's sneezing on cue hahahaha :P


    Was nice seeing you all too, I was trying very hard (and failing) not to laugh and applaud at the sneezing as I know you don't want that encouraging :smile:

    I ate a whole box of tic-tacs on the way home trying to keep awake - it caught up with me last night I went to bed at 8:30pm!

    I bought some chicken scratch and more toys / treats today - got some coming in the post too - you won't be able to move in the coop for dangling toys and treats soon!

    It's a shame Helen won't let us share the pics of Helen cuddling Leslie, they'd have looked brilliant on here - maybe make it something that only those that donated can see!!
    •  
      CommentAuthorKateb
    • CommentTimeNov 24th, 2015 8:23pm (Nov 24th 2015)
     
    Would she let you crop her head off?! I hate my picture on anything so use that technique if I want to send anyone a pic I'm in!! Probably defeats the object though.
    •  
      CommentAuthorRed
    • CommentTimeNov 26th, 2015 8:17pm (Nov 26th 2015) edited
     

    Keeper of the hens

    Change of plan for working with Zoey, we're trying to let her have free roam when we leave...I have no idea if this will be possible, it will involve a lot of doggy proofing the room, but I feel she would be more comfortable free...don't know if it will work. We'll set up a webcam so we can watch her, and as ever take everything slow.

    The pen will remain up, as it is useful to separate the dogs (eg. so they can chew Nylabones without being pestered, or if we have guests over we can use the pen to keep Zoey from getting so excited with them) and it won't hurt to have Zoey used to going in and out of the pen. We've made it smaller so it doesn't interfere with the room so much, and Kasper and Zoey have more room to play.

    She has no issue with the pen when we are home

     photo caged_zpsbvacmg7c.jpg
    •  
      CommentAuthorKateb
    • CommentTimeNov 30th, 2015 9:04pm (Nov 30th 2015)
     
    My dog was always fine to be left free roaming when left alone and lots of dogs are, so it's got to be worth a try.
    •  
      CommentAuthorRed
    • CommentTimeDec 1st, 2015 12:22am (Dec 1st 2015) edited
     

    Keeper of the hens

    Yes but the issue with Zoey is that she already destroys anything she can get her paws on when free ranging, and the anxiety will make her more destructive.
    •  
      CommentAuthorneil
    • CommentTimeDec 1st, 2015 1:15pm (Dec 1st 2015)
     

    Keeper of the hens

    Posted By: RedToday after taking her on a big walk we put her in the pen with a stuffed Kong and several chew toys, then left the house for exactly two minutes. She didn't even look up when we came in, and even when we unlocked the pen door she stayed on the couch emptying her Kong.


    It sounded like it was going so well too. :face-crying:
    •  
      CommentAuthorRed
    • CommentTimeDec 1st, 2015 4:37pm (Dec 1st 2015) edited
     

    Keeper of the hens

    It was. It's still not necessarily going terribly, it's just going very slowly and is massively stressful, and she's not comfortable. What don't you understand? I'm not well. This involves us not leaving her alone, at all (meaning I am missing out massively on our other dogs - this isn't fair on them - and I can't go to appts), vet visits etc. I can't do that.

    Also I thought you and mum believed I shouldn't have dogs (or, indeed, pets) because I am mentally ill? That's the wonderful advice I was given on the phone last night...

    You don't understand or appreciate how bad things are, I'm really ill. I can't do the things most people could. I appreciated you spending time to come help fix the pen (that was a really awesome thing you did) but this isn't a quick fix thing...contrary to what you advised us to do, you CANNOT just shove her in a pen and let her try break out until she gives up or hurts herself...that won't work. As is saying 'oh well if you can't cope with ANY issue a dog might have, you shouldn't have dogs' - THAT IS STUPID. Dogs can have thousands of issues (especially dogs with a bad start) and your average owner wouldn't be able to cope with hundreds of them. If that was true nobody should have a dog.

    Without meaning to toot my own horn I am a good dog owner; I put hours into my dogs everyday and do my very best for them. When we adopted Kasper I spent weeks reading up on dog behaviour and training...everything I know is self taught because I want the best for my dogs. You saying I shouldn't have them, or insinuating that I am 'giving up' or a bad owner, makes me feel like ****.

    It's all well and good saying 'oh but so-and-so has a dog and they just leave him in a room to chew the walls, door etc' but I would NEVER do that. That is NOT good dog ownership, that is neglect.

    I get it, you don't own dogs so you can't imagine the work that goes into them. But don't make me out to be the bad guy.
    •  
      CommentAuthorneil
    • CommentTimeDec 1st, 2015 5:50pm (Dec 1st 2015)
     

    Keeper of the hens

    I'm 100% sure we didn't say you or any mentally ill person shouldn't keep dogs. I would hope we've been nothing but positive even when you added to your dog/pet collection.

    What we are saying is the fact is you are ill and need help, and the fact you have three dogs, all with their own difficulties and care needs has exacerbated this current mess of a situation where you can't get the medical help you need, which isn't doing anyone any good, be it you, Lyle, the dogs or us not wanting to see you unhappy and in distress. We assumed you'd be able to work through with Zoey and her problems, but you're right I don't understand how much work it would be - when we had a dog many years ago it chewed the step as a puppy a bit then it was fine, but this was in the days when rubbing a dog's nose in it if it did anything in the house was the norm...
    • CommentAuthorEdge
    • CommentTimeDec 1st, 2015 11:52pm (Dec 1st 2015) edited
     
    Just wanted to chime in, in the interest of fairness. I was included in the discussion last night, and am also certain that it was mentioned that Red should not own dogs due to her mental illness - this wasn't aggressively said, it was just a statement made. I think it's pretty unjust to imply that didn't happen when Red is already suffering from psychosis, unless you have honestly forgotten. I had to end the phone call last night because Red was busy crying (which I let you know) and I kind of assumed you would get in touch to check she was okay after a difficult day and phone call.

    Now especially is a time when Red really needs support. I understand it's a shock when we talk about rehoming Zoey but this is not something we would ever do if there was another option. I find it sad that the things being said to Red would not be said if she had a serious physical illness. We, Red especially, are trying so hard for our dogs right now.
    • CommentAuthorEdge
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd, 2015 12:02am (Dec 2nd 2015) edited
     
    Not sure Red will be up to posting, but here is today's progress / where we are now. We spoke to a vet today about medication for Zoey, and after a twenty minute discussion she said she would not prescribe Zoey strong medication as her anxiety and panic are nowhere near severe enough. We (Red and I) agree with this. The vet said we could try over-the-counter medication, so we picked some up today and are also researching what sort of those medications have the best reviews and have been said to be most effective. Alongside the Calmex we are still not leaving Zoey alone yet, but are continuing to leave her alone downstairs whilst we are upstairs. Today we were upstairs for twenty minutes and she had no issue at all, she didn't move off the chair. The next step, after building how long we are upstairs, is to take the time right back down and begin leaving the house. This unfortunately does not mean we can definitely keep her, and we are looking into the rehoming procedure, but obviously we want to try everything before having to rehome her.
    •  
      CommentAuthorKateb
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd, 2015 6:21pm (Dec 2nd 2015)
     
    Thanks Lyle, I hope Red is OK and it's great to know you are taking care of her. I'm sure you (as in both of you) will do what you believe is best for Zoey, and don't undertestimate your abilities, and Zoey's growth and maturity since she was a puppy. It's hard to be able to offer any advice - I haven't had a dog for 34 years and don't know Zoey other than what has been posted during the time you've had her, but I love to read everything you've done for her and am amazed at what you've achieved. Good luck. xx
    •  
      CommentAuthorchief chicken
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd, 2015 7:23pm (Dec 2nd 2015)
     
    Look into the Bach flower remedies too; I'm too rusty to recommend anything off the top of my head, but there are plenty for anxiety, terror, adjusting to new situations... It's worth reading up on, because they are nothing but flower extracts mixed with brandy, and you put three drops in her drinking water. You can combine - up to three remedies, I think - or the Rescue Remedy is a good catch-all. Keep going - we're all behind you. :heart:
    •  
      CommentAuthorKateb
    • CommentTimeDec 4th, 2015 9:30pm (Dec 4th 2015)
     
    I used bach flower once and it did seem to work. I thought maybe it was mind over matter to some degree, but who knows.
    How are you today Red? (or to Lyle if Red is still too poorly) xx
    •  
      CommentAuthorchief chicken
    • CommentTimeDec 5th, 2015 7:32pm (Dec 5th 2015)
     
    My fried was treating a dog and a kid in the same family with Bach remedies. Gran came to babysit and put the kid's drops in its drink and the dog's drops on the floor where it used to lick them up. One day the dog didn;t lick them up...they were the kid's drops. Dogs don't do mind over matter!
    •  
      CommentAuthorKateb
    • CommentTimeDec 5th, 2015 8:06pm (Dec 5th 2015)
     
    Dogs are also much cleverer than kids!!!
    •  
      CommentAuthorchief chicken
    • CommentTimeDec 6th, 2015 5:00pm (Dec 6th 2015)
     
    How true!:face-smile:
    •  
      CommentAuthorRed
    • CommentTimeDec 8th, 2015 4:07pm (Dec 8th 2015) edited
     

    Keeper of the hens

    We made some progress with Zoey, had some setbacks and then had to put it on hold whilst the flooding / power cuts happened...

    The good stuff: we have found that we can leave Zoey for half an hour immediately after we wake up, in the bedroom. This doesn't sound like much but it means I can see Rey and take him for walks, which has helped hugely with feeling like I'm missing out on him and going crazy stuck with Zoey.

    We give her a Calmex, then just before we leave she gets one normal Kong, one frozen Kong, two puzzle feeders with kibble in and several chew toys. When we recorded her being left for 35 minutes she was kept busy with her things for around 30 minutes, and only in the last five did she start getting anxious...even then it wasn't particularly bad.


    The problem is that only works in the morning, when we're already upstairs, she's already in bed and is lazy and tired. I don't know how we can leave her in the day
    :face-plain:

    We tried leaving her in the kitchen, where she has been left most and where she would have Kasper for company. We gave her a massive walk, then gave her the Calmex, and all her usual toys...but this went much worse.

    She didn't chew anything, but when we watched the footage back she just sat looking stressed. She did one of her Kongs for ten minutes and the second for five, but other than that she sat looking stressed with intermittent quiet whines. AAAAAAGH. She didn't even touch the bloody puzzle feeders.

    So I don't know. I'm sick of pandering to her and not leaving the house though, so that's not happening anymore. We'll keep working on it all, we'll keep leaving her in different rooms whilst we're in the house, and we'll keep only leaving her for relatively short periods of time...but her info's also posted on a rescue's site and if by chance the perfect home came along we'd have to think about letting her go. Because this isn't fair on anyone.

    Having power back should help, as now we can put Zoey in the kitchen with lighting and things to do, and we can spend time with Rey in the living room.

    Here's footage from the end of last week, this is when we leave her in the bedroom asap...unfortunately I can't edit the video otherwise it breaks, so I had to include the whole thing. Points to watch:

    8 minutes in - Zoey gets her things to do
    8.30ish - we leave the house
    - Zoey is kept busy with both her Kongs
    25 mins 50 - finished with her Kongs and begins puzzle feeder
    36 mins 50 - first signs of anxiety as she's finished the 'best' things
    37 mins 40 - tries to dig under the covers to settle - I have no idea if she would have slept had she been able to. You can see she's very tense and unhappy. We have been gone 30 minutes here.
    38 mins 20 - goes back to puzzle feeder
    38 mins 30 - we're home!



    It wasn't too bad, and compared to when we left her in the kitchen it's wonderful heh...but it's not ideal and it means we can't leave her for longer than half an hour, and only in the morning.

    The Calmex seems to have zero effect, but we've ordered some KalmAid and Bach in. We've also had a DAP diffuser this entire time, but again it seems to make no difference.
    •  
      CommentAuthorchief chicken
    • CommentTimeDec 8th, 2015 6:14pm (Dec 8th 2015)
     
    Can you start to socialise them all together so you could ultimately walk them all together?
    •  
      CommentAuthorRed
    • CommentTimeDec 8th, 2015 7:11pm (Dec 8th 2015) edited
     

    Keeper of the hens

    Unfortunately we couldn't do that as they all require different things on walks. For example Raiden is learning to be calm and focus on us, socialise with other dogs, come when called and practice training outdoors etc.

    Kasper needs to be walked on lead (so it's not really fair to walk him with an off lead dog!), he's not that interested in playing on walks and he will resource guard things he picks up.

    Zoey would be way WAY too focused with Raiden outside, to the point where she wouldn't walk and would just be straining towards him. We also wouldn't be able to do the training she needs with another dog present.

    When a dog is stressed their training suffers and they struggle to follow cues they could previously do with ease. This very much happens with Zoey. This is why in the house at the moment she can't be around Rey, as she can't remain calm, be called away, focus on us etc. Outside it would be much worse! And at the moment it's not fair to expect this of her. We're not doing any intro's with her until she's had chance for her stress levels to drop.

    We could walk Kasper and Rey together, but they wouldn't enjoy it as much as a solo walk and it would still involve Zoey being left. We could possibly walk Kasper and Zoey together, but again there would be issues, neither would enjoy it and it wouldn't help me spend time with Raiden.

    It would help if Zoey would just settle in a different room to us, but the only room she'll do that in during the day is the living room, and then where are we supposed to play with Rey?! The bedroom's tiny, the kitchen's got two large dog crates in...we need the living room!
    •  
      CommentAuthorRed
    • CommentTimeDec 8th, 2015 7:16pm (Dec 8th 2015)
     

    Keeper of the hens

    We're going to try leave the house for just fifteen minutes today, so I get to see Raiden out on a walk. We have Kasper chilling behind a pen on the couch, and he'll have a Kong / toys. Zoey will be loose in the living room, we're hoping she'll cope because the living room is a positive place for her, she'll be free roaming and she has her brother (we have no idea if that helps or not, who knows?!).

    I'd love to leave them both loose but if either of them found anything Kasper would resource guard and it could escalate, plus there'd be nobody to regulate their play.

    I won't be gone too long, then I'll come back and Raiden can carry on for a nice walk...
    •  
      CommentAuthorKateb
    • CommentTimeDec 8th, 2015 7:58pm (Dec 8th 2015)
     
    I saw a programme on TV a couple of months ago and it was footage of dogs left alone. Most of them were stressed. I didn't see all of the programme though so I don't know how they helped them, but they said they believe the majority of dogs act this way. Is it possible that she acted the same way in the cage/pen before? Or did you film her secretly then so you know it wasn't an issue? Can you walk Rey while Lyle stays with Zoe?
    •  
      CommentAuthorRed
    • CommentTimeDec 8th, 2015 8:56pm (Dec 8th 2015)
     

    Keeper of the hens

    Oooh, that's interesting. We haven't filmed her for aaaages, I think when we moved house last was when we did. I think the biggest factor that at the moment that points to her unhappiness is a) breaking out of pens / crates (which she has never done before) and b) not touching her puzzle feeders or emptying her Kongs. Pretty big indicator she's stressed!

    I went out with Lyle and Rey for 20 minutes before, leaving Kasper on the couch behind the pen and Zoey free reign. We didn't film them as it was too much of a rush, but when we got back Kasper was chilling on the couch still and Zoey had emptied her Kong.
    •  
      CommentAuthorchief chicken
    • CommentTimeDec 9th, 2015 6:21pm (Dec 9th 2015) edited
     
    Posted By: RedI went out with Lyle and Rey for 20 minutes before, leaving Kasper on the couch behind the pen and Zoey free reign. We didn't film them as it was too much of a rush, but when we got back Kasper was chilling on the couch still and Zoey had emptied her Kong.


    Well that's all positive, isn't it? Progress!
    •  
      CommentAuthorKateb
    • CommentTimeDec 9th, 2015 8:05pm (Dec 9th 2015)
     
    Hmm, another thought then - are you sure you left the door of the pen open and she didn't open it herself that first time?

    Maybe on her own she gets stressed but having Kasper around helps to some extent? I agree with CC, see it as progress and lets hope she starts to relax little step by little step. xx
    •  
      CommentAuthorRed
    • CommentTimeDec 10th, 2015 5:13pm (Dec 10th 2015) edited
     

    Keeper of the hens

    Kate she couldn't have opened the pen as you have to line the panels up, and then a 120cm long pole slots between them (so to break out she'd have had to push the pole vertically 120cm high until it fell out!)...what must have happened is that we pushed the panel shut but forgot to slot the pole down, aaargh, so she was able to just push her way out :sad:

    I'm not sure if Kasper helps, he was in the kitchen (in his crate but clearly visible) when we left Zoey the other day and she did the worst we've seen...but it's possible when we leave Zoey in a 'happy' place (eg. living room) with Kasper there as well, it could help. When we leave Kasper in the bedroom with her he tends to be a bit of an arse (clomping about) because he doesn't get left up there...I think he'd disturb Zoey if we left them in the bedroom together :smile:

    We have definitely seen some progress, and recording her has been positive as (most the time) she's coped far better than we imagined she was doing...for example in the first video she was busy for thirty minutes, and only after that did she seem bothered about being alone.

    Today we left her in the bedroom right after we woke up, again, and she did okay...25 minutes emptying her Kongs and puzzle feeder, then five or ten minutes before we got back she was miserable again...the most annoying thing is that she still has things left to do, she just doesn't deem them worthy of doing!!



    And in comparison, here's Kasper being left for just over 30 minutes...you can see he's much more relaxed; he spends time doing his Kong and then the rest of the time he's dead to the world sleeping!



    I think we're going to leave Zoey with three Kongs (ridiculous :smile: ) and a Buster Cube, but not any other kibble dispensers as she doesn't bother with them (I find this incredibly annoying!). So two normal Kongs, one frozen. We've also started leaving her with toys to play / destroy (instead of just Nylabones and antlers) but she doesn't seem to bother with them.

    At least I can leave the house and walk Rey now, even if it is immediately after waking :woohoo:

    Also Zoey's demeanor in general is far less stressed than it was a few weeks ago; she's settling more in the house, smiling, playing, doing her training well etc. So much so I think we're going to begin doing intro's / training sessions with her and Raiden today :smile:
    •  
      CommentAuthorKateb
    • CommentTimeDec 10th, 2015 8:15pm (Dec 10th 2015)
     
    That sounds really positive Red, hope she continues down that path bless her!!
    •  
      CommentAuthorRed
    • CommentTimeDec 11th, 2015 5:01pm (Dec 11th 2015)
     

    Keeper of the hens

    Left her again for just under 40 minutes today and, for no apparent reason, the recording program we use didn't work :tearhair:

    I imagine she was the same though; happy for about 20 minutes then miserable until we got back. I can live with that :bigsmile: I'm starting to think maybe we should up the amount of time we leave her, say from half an hour to an hour or two...we're wondering if she spent another ten minutes being uncomfortable she would eventually curl up and sleep.
    •  
      CommentAuthorKateb
    • CommentTimeDec 11th, 2015 10:04pm (Dec 11th 2015)
     
    Actually that's a really good point. The kids are like that - turn off their TV at night and they will cry and winge for 15 or 20 minutes, then give up and eventually go to sleep. She may well do the same and don't forget, just because she doesn't do it first time doesn't mean she won't do it second or third.
    •  
      CommentAuthorRed
    • CommentTimeDec 12th, 2015 4:44pm (Dec 12th 2015)
     

    Keeper of the hens

    It would make a real difference to be able to leave her for an hour or two as well, it would open up a lot of things we haven't been able to do, such as getting Rey to the vet for socialisation before his neuter. We're probably going to give it a go next time the weather's nice, although it'll probably be mid next week now seeing as the weekend's here!
    •  
      CommentAuthorRed
    • CommentTimeDec 13th, 2015 7:09pm (Dec 13th 2015) edited
     

    Keeper of the hens

    Left Zoey for an hour and twenty minutes today, which is the longest yet. We set my laptop up to record, but again it didn't work so we weren't able to see how she did. There was nothing destroyed, all three of her Kongs were emptied, the Buster Cube was emptied and the other puzzle feeder was half emptied, so she did well. I imagine she had her usual period of anxiety though.

    Here are the things we left her with last week, she gets an extra Kong now :bigsmile:

     photo sazoey_zpsukjnfcqo.jpg
    • CommentAuthorLynnW
    • CommentTimeDec 13th, 2015 7:53pm (Dec 13th 2015)
     
    I'm glad Zoey did so well by herself. I think all dogs go through some stress, you can never get rid of it all, but Zoey seem to be doing better handling it now.:face-smile:
    •  
      CommentAuthorKateb
    • CommentTimeDec 13th, 2015 9:19pm (Dec 13th 2015)
     
    I think Lynn is right - you can't eliminate completely and though I know you'd like your dogs to never have any stress I think you realistically just need to reduce to a minimum and accept that she will be OK with some. She's not destroying things and as long as she isn't barking enough to disturb the peace then she will surely be managing the stress. You need to manage your own levels as well and walking Rey will help with that I'm sure. If you keep filming her then you will upset yourself - I'd suggest only doing it once or twice to see how she is and then just be reassured that she's coping.
    •  
      CommentAuthorRed
    • CommentTimeDec 15th, 2015 2:27am (Dec 15th 2015) edited
     

    Keeper of the hens

    Thank you both :) :heart: Kate I think you're right...every time I come back from leaving her I am filled with dread, and it's not about her having potentially destroyed something, it's about watching the bl**dy footage!! And it's not as if she's utterly miserable or unable to manage her stress, she's just slightly miserable for ten minutes! :bigsmile:

    We had another mini breakthrough tonight - every one feels momentous!

    Twice a day, after doing intro and training with the dogs, we put the adult dogs in the kitchen so we can spend one-on-one time with Raiden, playing and mostly doing training. Kasper goes into his crate and is fine, and Zoey has free roam of the rest of the kitchen with her usual arsenal of toys.

    This evening she was in the kitchen for over an hour; to begin with she emptied all her toys which lasted for forty minutes, then for ten minutes she sat doing nothing and looking stressed, then for the remainder she settled on the footstool we put in there for her and chewed her Nylabone!!!

    :woohoo::yay_jump::cheer::cheerleader::crazy:

    This is AMAZING and we wrapped everything up quick so we were letting her through whilst she was entertaining herself. I've discovered three things from tonight:

    1) She acts stressed when she clearly knows we are still in the house, even though she can be left in rooms on her own (eg. if she is settled on the couch and we go upstairs for an hour or so she doesn't even move!) - this shows the issue is not so much her being left alone / with us leaving the house.

    2) To begin with she was perfectly happy emptying the puzzle feeders, followed by her usual anxiety...but then she reoriented herself, calmed herself down and settled to chew a toy!!! Aaaaagh I am thrilled! Not only did she re-settle but it wasn't even with a food toy, it was chewing a Nylabone; chewing has de-stressing properties for dogs too :bigsmile:

    3) Based on the point above I'm thinking that if we were to leave her in the bedroom, alone, for a longer stretch of time she *could* calm herself and settle, be it chewing a toy or just sleeping.

    She's also still doing well with Raiden. We haven't let them play since she was really stressed, but they can do any tricks we ask next to each other, I can feed them each treats whilst they sit side by side, they can get up and off furniture next to each other whilst keeping attention on me and...yeah
    :)
    •  
      CommentAuthorKateb
    • CommentTimeDec 15th, 2015 7:57pm (Dec 15th 2015)
     
    Reading your post Red it seems to me that she exhibits stress to get some attention, and when she doesn't get it she settles herself down. It's a bit like the kids - they will entertain themselves for a while, and then decide they're bored. They'll either start doing something a little bit naughty, or moan, or bicker, or fight. If we react it escalates and they have what they want - interaction. If we ignore them (as long as they're safe) then give them attention when they stop they realise they get better quality attention for good behaviour. I think she'd be fine - taking it gradual is a good idea.
    •  
      CommentAuthorchief chicken
    • CommentTimeDec 15th, 2015 10:54pm (Dec 15th 2015)
     
    The principle my mum was told by the doc - let a baby cry for 20 mins - if it carries on after that then go and check. Both my brother and I would stop bawling EXACTLY 20 mins after we started - but Mum was so freaked out she had to get up and check on us anyway! :rolling: Red, you're doing a perfect job. Don't beat yourself up - think of all the dogs left untended and uncared for - Zoe is a very lucky girl to have you both.
    •  
      CommentAuthorRed
    • CommentTimeDec 15th, 2015 11:26pm (Dec 15th 2015) edited
     

    Keeper of the hens

    Kate I don't think it's attention seeking...you can't reinforce fear for dogs (so if you soothe or feed them treats when they are scared, it makes them feel better as oppose to encouraging them to act / pretend to be fearful). If we captured and rewarded Zoey for behaviours she exhibitited when stressed as we happened to see them, she would offer them more (such as yawning, licking her lips or whining; she was rewarded A LOT for whining before we brought her home so she whines very easily now). But her anxiety obviously isn't intense enough that she can't work through it herself.

    It's awesome that she re-settled and I'm really hopeful now she's done it (at least) once, she will use it as a calming tool more often...she was always good at redirecting herself onto Nylabones when she had energy but nothing to do, so it'd be great if she could learn the same thing when she was stressed, especially when left alone.

    Thanks CC :heart: In dog training there's a 20 minute rule too (people believe dogs can't differentiate between 20 minutes and significantly longer periods of time, eg. 3 hours. So if your dog is happy to be left for 20 minutes they should be fine for several hours) but I'm not sure how it applies to Zoey seeing as she's okay for half an hour whilst she's busy :bigsmile:
    •  
      CommentAuthorKateb
    • CommentTimeDec 15th, 2015 11:58pm (Dec 15th 2015)
     
    I see what you mean. I'm still wondering if there is a bit of "yeah I'm bored now so I'm not sure what to do" and expects you to solve that for her, but then settles herself much as CC and her brother did! Whatever the reason, it's really positive that she's improving and you're getting a bit of freedom!
    •  
      CommentAuthorchief chicken
    • CommentTimeDec 16th, 2015 3:49pm (Dec 16th 2015)
     
    Yes, and I'm practically housetrained now and hardly ever eat furniture. :tooth:
    •  
      CommentAuthorRed
    • CommentTimeDec 16th, 2015 6:20pm (Dec 16th 2015) edited
     

    Keeper of the hens

    I totally hear you on the boredom. It's like once she's finished the good stuff she suddenly realises "oh **** I'm alone, aaagh stress!"...whereas if someone chucked her a Kong in she'd most likely be fine again :sarcastic:

    I recently found a puzzle toy that you load treats into different chambers, and they're released automatically at intervals...so she'd have some instantly, then I guess you'd set another for fifteen minutes later, another fifteen minutes after that...I'll have to have a look into them, depending on the price and how easy Zoey could tear them apart it could be worth looking into :bigsmile:
    •  
      CommentAuthorKateb
    • CommentTimeDec 16th, 2015 7:45pm (Dec 16th 2015)
     
    They sound like a good idea Red - be interested to see if they work!
    •  
      CommentAuthorRed
    • CommentTimeDec 16th, 2015 11:35pm (Dec 16th 2015) edited
     

    Keeper of the hens

    Something like this, but the hole looks like she could get her teeth in it, or maybe the dents in the top...you can choose to release every 15, 30, 60 or 90 minutes!

    Foobler interactive pet treat dispenser
    •  
      CommentAuthorneil
    • CommentTimeDec 17th, 2015 11:49am (Dec 17th 2015) edited
     

    Keeper of the hens

    I like how it rings a bell so your dog knows it's time to play with it :)

    You would think they would make something that could be put out of reach that would scatter treats at a user-decided time period... I think this is an idea for dragon's den!
    •  
      CommentAuthorchief chicken
    • CommentTimeDec 17th, 2015 6:10pm (Dec 17th 2015)
     
    Excellent idea - go for it Neil! And I think that Foobler thing would be excellent for Zoe.
    •  
      CommentAuthorneil
    • CommentTimeDec 18th, 2015 4:26pm (Dec 18th 2015) edited
     

    Keeper of the hens

    It's starting to make more sense the more I think about it - it would work indoors and even outdoors for animals such as chickens - just set the interval, fill it with food, attach it to the roof of your run or sit it somewhere up high and it spits a portion of treats out through the day - to keep your pet entertained / fed - it's a money-making goldmine I tells ya!

    I did find commercial animal feeders that are kind of similar - you fill a massive hopper and it periodically spins the spout round which flings feed around the area - something on a much smaller scale (and cheaper) would be amazing and I'm sure I'd buy it at least!
    •  
      CommentAuthorchief chicken
    • CommentTimeDec 18th, 2015 4:55pm (Dec 18th 2015)
     
    Me too. Patent it, quickly!
    •  
      CommentAuthorRed
    • CommentTimeDec 18th, 2015 9:11pm (Dec 18th 2015) edited
     

    Keeper of the hens

    I like the idea of the thing that spins, or something that drops treats from high up, because then Zoey (or any dog / cat etc) would still have the puzzle element of sniffing out the food.

    For me I don't just want an automatic feeder, I want an automatic feeder that Zoey then has to work to get out - so she's kept busy and happy for longer. So something where food is released but she then has to knock it about to get it out.

    I found a doggy slot machine which I thought was hilarious:


    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Outward-Hound-41019-Multicolor/dp/B00XWDYGA2/ref=sr_1_7?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1450420798&sr=1-7&keywords=dog+puzzle+toy

    But it only has three chambers to fill...and obviously it's a must be supervised toy so not exactly what I'm looking for. But amazing!
    •  
      CommentAuthorRed
    • CommentTimeDec 26th, 2015 2:20pm (Dec 26th 2015) edited
     

    Keeper of the hens

    We're having to rehome Zoey. She chewed our door frame when left in our bedroom, doing a lot of damage, and ignored almost all her puzzle toys...this shows she was very stressed, and we don't know why as it was exactly the same as the other times she'd been left.

    Since then we have tried leaving Zoey on the couch twice, with the reinforced pen around her, for far shorter periods of time. Both times she has broken the pen and pulled off sharp bits of wire. This means we now don't have anywhere safe we can leave her. We can't have her destroying the house, not only because of the damage but she could easily cut herself, swallow something dangerous or crack a tooth. I'm back to staying with her 24/7, yet again missing out on our other dogs (especially Rey). We've spoken with a vet and trainer and neither had any suggestions. The trainer said she'd cover our area for an extra charge, but after watching footage of Zoey and hearing what we've tried she said she couldn't recommend anything and it's the time where we have to seriously think about rehoming her for the good of everyone...yeah, we know.

    A couple read our (very very long) information and have said they would like to adopt Zoey, which is more than we could ever have hoped for. We have been talking to them and they sound perfect...at home all day, wouldn't leave her on her own, force free training, only dog so gets their undivided attention and can have toys all day...I'm really hoping they will meet her and fall in love with her.

    I'm totally numb to it all at the moment...he's cried a few times, but I'm just numb. Zoey got her Christmas presents yesterday, but the rest of us are going to wait so I can see Raiden open his pressies for his first Christmas.
    • CommentAuthorLynnW
    • CommentTimeDec 26th, 2015 6:36pm (Dec 26th 2015)
     
    I'm so sorry to hear that you have to rehome Zoey, Red...but it does seem like you have no choice at this point. :bighug:
    •  
      CommentAuthorchief chicken
    • CommentTimeDec 26th, 2015 6:53pm (Dec 26th 2015)
     
    I'm so sorry Red, I don't know what to say. Could it just be the stress of Christmas doing it?:face-crying:
    •  
      CommentAuthorRed
    • CommentTimeDec 27th, 2015 6:03am (Dec 27th 2015) edited
     

    Keeper of the hens

    Thanks...realisation is finally hitting and we've had a few sobs together. I don't think so CC it's been a month and a half now.

    Not even tried leaving her these past few days, I don't want any of her time with us to be miserable...speaking to her potential new owners and they sound so excited to meet and hopefully adopt her...this was from a message today: "I'm just happy me and my partner could rehome such a beautiful dog and make her feel nothing but love"...I so want her to be doted on, to be the centre of attention...
    :face-crying:
    •  
      CommentAuthorKateb
    • CommentTimeDec 27th, 2015 7:16pm (Dec 27th 2015)
     
    Are they local to you Red? Have you had chance to think about the practicalities of it all? Will they come and meet her and then go away and have a think? Or will you be willing to let her go with them immediately? Do you have a good instinct for people? With all the volunteering you've done previously did you get to meet people who were rehoming animals, and did you have a good 'feel' for them? If so, make sure you trust your instincts. Are they a mature couple? Where did you post the information - not gumtree I hope, too many people get pets from there and regret it a week later when reality bites.

    I'm so so sorry you're having to do this. I really thought she was going to settle down and be OK. Something must've inspired the behaviour - maybe someone came to the door, or she heard noises outside. Please be sure you're doing the right thing, and if you decide it is then don't question yourself. Remember all the reasons you make the decision and discard the opposition view. Sometimes we have to make decisions which are extremely painful for us, but they're right for the animal. Zoey's welfare is the paramount concern and I know you will put her first.
    •  
      CommentAuthorRed
    • CommentTimeDec 27th, 2015 8:53pm (Dec 27th 2015) edited
     

    Keeper of the hens

    Kate we've not met them face to face yet and they haven't had chance to meet Zoey. They've had dogs before, agree with force free training, they're aware rescue dogs need very slow training and will be with her all day. I've told them they will need to arrange something in case they did need to leave her alone, and they say that's no problem. The information was on a rescue's site and a rehoming site, and was 6 A4 pages long. I have no idea what could have caused her to regress so much, it won't be knocking on the door because she's never reacted to that...what else is there? She doesn't mind fireworks, sirens, dogs barking, hearing people outside and she had the TV on and toys. I'm not sure if they will be taking her immediately, it depends entirely on how Zoey gets on with them, on if they fall head over heels in love with her and, most importantly, if we think they're the right home. If it falls through I'm afraid Zoey will have to go into rescue, as it's highly unlikely anybody else will be interested or a good match for her...her information's been up (first asking for fostering or a *potential* rehome) for about three weeks now.

    The other tricky thing is where to do the intro. The house is hard as it will greatly upset Kasper, so we're probably going to use the village hall. This gives us a large space, Zoey can have all her toys, she can be off lead, there'll be no stress from Kasper and we can go on a walk afterwards so they can see how she is on lead. It'll be a bit of an interrogation on both sides I imagine and if they did want to take her afterwards I'd want them to be with us and Zoey for at least an hour. If they want time to think about it and would rather come visit several more times before deciding, we can do that providing it doesn't take too long.
    •  
      CommentAuthorKateb
    • CommentTimeDec 28th, 2015 11:38pm (Dec 28th 2015)
     
    As I said, you've thought about everything! I hope it all goes well - they sound like a good option so let's hope they're genuine and can take her. How can they not fall in love with her!!
    •  
      CommentAuthorchief chicken
    • CommentTimeDec 29th, 2015 4:51pm (Dec 29th 2015)
     
    They sound like nice people, Red. I do hope they're everything you'd hope for for her. :heart:
    • CommentAuthorLynnW
    • CommentTimeDec 30th, 2015 12:21pm (Dec 30th 2015)
     
    I sure hope the people will come to meet her soon and want to have her.
    •  
      CommentAuthorRed
    • CommentTimeJan 5th, 2016 9:38am (Jan 5th 2016) edited
     

    Keeper of the hens

    Zoey moved to her new home three days ago. It was a new couple that got in touch and they just seemed amazing...they said they would take her on a foster-to-keep basis and if it didn't work out they would keep her until they could place her. The reason they weren't sure it would work was because they had a large American Bulldog cross, but Jake (their dog) sounded like an ideal dog to live with Zoey...if Zoey can get over her initial fear of a large dog they make better play mates as she loves to play rough, and it's really just rude / bouncy / aggressive big dogs she struggles with (which is most around here, especially Labs!).

    Jake was 7 years old and they said he was extremely confident in himself, laid back and totally chilled. The couple have worked with their dogs extensively using PR (their previous dog was a rescue and reactive). They had a Staffordshire Bull Terrier that died a few months ago from cancer. The man in the house worked six hours every weekday whereas the woman worked from home AND they had family that is used to babysitting for the dogs (spent lots of time caring for the SBT so he was never left alone). Um what else did they say...anyway, they sent all that in their first message which I thought was SO GOOD!

    We got in touch and met up with them the next day (New Year's day). I asked them if they would bring Jake out first so Zoey's attention was on the dog over them, and we went to the field. I asked them to have Jake at one end and just hang out with him, and we had Zoey at the other and worked with her until she was calm and able to focus on us...the field's a large football pitch but that's how focused Zoey is around large dogs now.

    After 20 minutes we started walking on opposite lengths of the football field, still doing LAT with Zoey, and then we let the dogs meet up. Jake was so awesome, he's going to be so good for Zoey. Zoey wanted desperately to say hello but was scared. Jake gave off calming signals and his body language was very loose and comfortable. Zoey gained confidence and went to say hi, going from nervous to full zoomie-play mode. This was when we dropped Zoey's lead so it trailed behind her. She began sprinting and trying to initiate play, so we took the lead off completely.

    She zoomed all around the field and every now and then would race after Jake who would gamble after her for a while then just wait for her to sprint closer to him again. After about 20 minutes of this the man took Jake and drove him home, then the rest of us went inside. Zoey had toys out and we quizzed each other, we handed over a booklet we'd written about Zoey...it had chapters on diet, supplements, health, treats, training (including a list of cues), walks management etc.

    We met up again the next day (minus Jake!) and afterwards they drove us all to their house so Zoey could have an overnight trial. I thought this was lovely, that they were so fine with us dropping her off.

    (I've actually exceeded the post limit :blushing: I'll post the rest just after this...)
    •  
      CommentAuthorRed
    • CommentTimeJan 5th, 2016 9:43am (Jan 5th 2016) edited
     

    Keeper of the hens

    They said the first four hours or so Zoey was very restless and unsettled (which is better than I thought it'd be!). Later on the first day Zoey settled on the couch with the woman, and their dog Jake hopped down beside her and snuggled her!! This made me tear up because apparently Zoey was just incredulous...she has *always* wanted to cuddle Kasper and it's so rare he ever would. She slept in her humans' bed that night and apprently did really well under the covers with them with several unsettled bursts. Jake sleeps on their bedroom floor in his own bed because he's so huge!

    They haven't walked her yet because they want her to be comfortable with them before trying to put the dreaded harness on, but their garden's easily 3x bigger than ours so she has room to let off steam. Her appetite has increased as of yesterday and she's started initiating excited play with Jake, probably to let off some stress.

    So...there you go. It's been horrible and hard but with every day that passes I'm more confident that we did what was best for everybody. In a few months, when we're all sure Zoey is happy where she is, we will ask for less frequent updates. Our eventual aim is just to get a few updates a year, maybe on Zoey's birthday and Christmas. Her new owners said they would be happy to meet up with us and Zoey but it's not something we want to do...we don't think it's fair on her and I don't think I could cope, I think my heart would break every time.

    The first few days were the hardest and there was lots of crying and 'did we do the right thing??'s. Kasper was wonderful and when we cried he sat on my lap and put his head on daddy's shoulder. Raiden has gone from spending no time with me to about 8 hours a day, and we will easily be able to build up the amount of time he spends in the living room. In a few days time we will begin intro'ing Kasper and Raiden again, when everyone has got used to the new situation...they haven't done any work together these past few months because we didn't have anywhere to put Zoey, and she was too stressed to focus around an exciting puppy.
    • CommentAuthorollie in UK
    • CommentTimeJan 5th, 2016 11:08am (Jan 5th 2016)
     
    What a amazing account!
    I am astounded at Red's perception of the psychology of the dogs behaviour.
    The observation and interpretation is astonishing.
    Red, you MUST write that book!
    •  
      CommentAuthorRed
    • CommentTimeJan 5th, 2016 1:52pm (Jan 5th 2016) edited
     

    Keeper of the hens

    Really? Thanks Ollie, that's a huge compliment! Haha what did I say though? :bigsmile:
    •  
      CommentAuthorchief chicken
    • CommentTimeJan 5th, 2016 6:00pm (Jan 5th 2016)
     
    SUCH good news from bad, Red - I do hope they put your minds at rest.It sounds as though they are going to be as good with her as you were and Jake sounds fabulous too. I do hope you're proud of what you achieved with Zoe, and Ollie's right - do a book!! I'm still waiting to buy your chicken book...:face-smile:
    •  
      CommentAuthorKateb
    • CommentTimeJan 5th, 2016 6:50pm (Jan 5th 2016)
     
    I can only agree with Lynn and CC - it's great news! I can understand why you've been sad, but you have done the best you can for her and it sounds like a really good home. She's going to love having Jake as a friend. I know I was the same when I had to rehome Seven, and it broke my heart that I had to take her to the rehoming centre, but the lady sent in photos a few weeks after and a note to say how settled she was and how happy she was to have Seven (even though she renamed her with a normal girly name!) It really helped me to meet the lady - I wasn't sure she would take to Seven so the follow-up message was very reassuring.
    I think you're right about not having contact with Zoey though, and just have occasional updates. It's the best for all of you. Be happy that you did so much for her and made her life and future a happy one. Kasper and Raiden will look after you both. xxx
    • CommentAuthorLynnW
    • CommentTimeJan 5th, 2016 7:43pm (Jan 5th 2016)
     
    Red, I'm so happy that things seem to be working out for Zoey and her new parents. I hope she has found her forever home now. Maybe the people will send pictures of her so we can still see her darling face once in a while. I'm sure you did the right thing for her in finding her a new home...but I know it still hurts like hell, that you had to do it.
    •  
      CommentAuthorRed
    • CommentTimeJan 6th, 2016 10:28pm (Jan 6th 2016)
     

    Keeper of the hens

    Thank you everyone :heart::flowers: