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    • CommentAuthorvolka
    • CommentTimeJul 31st, 2009 2:41pm (Jul 31st 2009)
     
    Rosie went to bed really early yesterday (about 4pm) and didn't even come out for corn at 6pm. She was still in the nesting box at 9pm when I shut them in - they usually sit on the perches overnight.

    I was a little concerned as this is what Ruby did before she died. However, when I anxiously opened the coop up this morning, Rosie was out like a shot, had a huge drink. I noticed her crop was really saggy but soft to the touch so I gave it a massage from the neck down. I think she burped but never having heard a chicken burp before, couldn't be sure!

    Ten minutes later, she waddles over to me, stand with one foot on mine and did the most enormous, stinky, green soft poo before wandering off to have some mash.

    Can I assume she was crop bound without being overly impacted? Did I do the right thing in massaging it through? Is there any aftercare I should do. She was quite happily tormenting a butterfly when I left for work.
    • CommentAuthorStuart
    • CommentTimeJul 31st, 2009 3:10pm (Jul 31st 2009)
     
    I can't tell you whether she had a compacted crop or not, but please watch that she doesn't eat the butterfly especially if it is a white one, usually found on cabbages. They are very toxic to chickens and it only takes one to kill.
    • CommentAuthornanny north
    • CommentTimeJul 31st, 2009 8:30pm (Jul 31st 2009) edited
     
    Oh poor Rosie she may have eaten something that disagreed with her. The crop is usually mega hard when they are crop bound. It is usually caused when they eat tough long grass it binds around every thing else they have eaten. Massaging the neck and crop gently will do no harm to her. Soak some bread in some olive oil and feed a hen that is suspected of being crop bound and then massage the neck and crop is an old fashioned way of helping them.

    I didn't know that about Cabbage white butterflies Stuart, how interesting are the catapillers toxic as well? My youngest son used to call them catapullers though Ha ha.
    •  
      CommentAuthorRed
    • CommentTimeJul 31st, 2009 8:34pm (Jul 31st 2009)
     

    Keeper of the hens

    Hi volka :seeya:

    Is she pooping normally now, and laying as normal?

    If she is crop bound, massaging is a good way to try and get stuff moving in her crop. A compacted crop is often caused by the hen eating long grass and it getting knotted up inside them, preventing anything from moving.

    As well as massaging, giving them a little vegetable oil is also said to work. I've never tried that though.

    However this worked well for us when Penny had something caught in her throat, we added a tiny bit of Apple Cider Vinegar to their water and this got things moving fine, and has other beneficial health impacts too. You can add a little ACV to their water even if they're not showing signs of illness, it still gives them a boost so won't hurt to try :)
    • CommentAuthorvolka
    • CommentTimeJul 31st, 2009 8:48pm (Jul 31st 2009) edited
     
    I'm so glad I joined this forum. Lots of sensible people who keep calm in a crisis!!

    I have put Rosie in seclusion with some warm water to drink and she managed a bit of yoghurt. I don't want her eating anything else that will bung up from the top. I'm not sure if it's what you'd call a hard crop - sort of more squidgy and still there tonight.

    I brought her into the kitchen for a thorough examination and then remembered that I hadn't shut the garden gate. When I came back she had done another huge poo in the cat's basket and was sitting on the draining rack, drinking drips from the tap.

    I suspect she is not really that sick - just likes the attention. I will certainly try the bread and oil.

    Only thing now, she seems to have a runny nose (well, her nostrils are damp and she is sneezing). Do chickens get hay fever?

    Exhausted and hypochondrical-by-proxy

    Vx

    Oh, yes, and she sitting on nice hot little egg when I got home so assume that she had just laid and not looking after it for someone else.

    And no, it was a Peacock but I didn't know about the cabbage whites.
    •  
      CommentAuthorRed
    • CommentTimeJul 31st, 2009 8:53pm (Jul 31st 2009)
     

    Keeper of the hens

    Does her breath smell really bad, volka? I know that's an odd question but crop bound hens have really stinky breath from the gunk in their crops... :ack2:

    Our chucks have runny noses from time to time, and is usually nothing to worry about, just a cold! Keep an eye out for any other symptoms, but I wouldn't be too worried about it! Another magic remedy: garlic is said to be good for helping to clear colds in chickens! ;)
    • CommentAuthorvolka
    • CommentTimeJul 31st, 2009 8:56pm (Jul 31st 2009)
     
    olive oil, bread, garlic...

    are you guys sure you're not just getting me to pre-stuff my birds should the time come!!! LOL

    Red - not sure - she is far too busy being naughty to let me get a whiff. Currently looking at her reflection in the washing machine door.
    • CommentAuthornanny north
    • CommentTimeJul 31st, 2009 9:01pm (Jul 31st 2009)
     
    Ha ha you are funny Volka It is true about the garlic though, It is good for holding colds away for us as well.
    • CommentAuthorStuart
    • CommentTimeJul 31st, 2009 9:50pm (Jul 31st 2009)
     
    Oddly enough, my chickens are fed better than me, don't forget the cottage cheese and parsley, good vitamin and calcium intake.

    Don't worry about caterpilars either, just the butterfly. I grow cabbages and put big leaves in with my girls sometimes with catterpilars on them. I think but don't quote me, it was my Granddad's field, that there is something in the wings that poison some birds including chickens, only a few birds finches, etc. have a tolerance to it. My Granddad used to use cod liver oil on his chickens and turn them upside down to make them sick, I think this was for sour crop - the squiggy one and smelly breath.
    • CommentAuthorvolka
    • CommentTimeAug 1st, 2009 9:46am (Aug 1st 2009)
     
    Well, madam turned her dainty little beak up at the bread in oil but is currently gobbling down a mixture of natural yoghurt and olive oil, so it's a case of wait and see now. The utility room was well smelly this morning with no poo so it must be sour crop because the bird herself is very chatty and active.

    Hang her upside down?! Ooh, don't know about that. Sounds icky.
    •  
      CommentAuthorRed
    • CommentTimeAug 1st, 2009 12:39pm (Aug 1st 2009) edited
     

    Keeper of the hens

    Posted By: volkaHang her upside down?! Ooh, don't know about that. Sounds icky.


    I wouldn't advise that, chickens aren't meant to be sick and it can easily result in death as the fluids flood their lungs. It's tricky to do and can be dangerous unless done by a professional eg vet, other methods should be tried first...oh, and it's obviously not very pleasant for the chuck :D :ack2:

    Yoghurt and olive oil are a good idea, glad she is eating that :001_smile:
    • CommentAuthorvolka
    • CommentTimeAug 1st, 2009 1:17pm (Aug 1st 2009)
     
    Yeah, I wasn't sure about the upside-down bit - relying on nature to take its course. Crop seems to have gone down a little but she hasn't laid or poo'd yet. But the runny nose seems to have cleared up and she's stopped sneezing. She's very cross at being in isolation, though, and tells me so every time I go into sort out the laundry.
    • CommentAuthornanny north
    • CommentTimeAug 1st, 2009 7:27pm (Aug 1st 2009)
     
    Ugh OMG cod liver oil.... nasty nasty stuff we used to have a spoon full of it once a week when we were kids, It was the most awful taste and would repeat all night.... sposed to be good for us mind but it makes me feel ick just thinking of it !!
    Glad Rosie is feeling a bit better now.
    •  
      CommentAuthorchief chicken
    • CommentTimeAug 1st, 2009 9:54pm (Aug 1st 2009)
     
    And were you dangled upside down after the cod liver oil, NN?
    • CommentAuthornanny north
    • CommentTimeAug 2nd, 2009 6:56pm (Aug 2nd 2009)
     
    Ha ha no CC, But I probably had several thick ears for making a fuss over the years !!!
    •  
      CommentAuthorKateb
    • CommentTimeAug 2nd, 2009 10:53pm (Aug 2nd 2009)
     
    My mom used to make me have a spoonful of some terrible brown gooey stuff every night. Think it was some sort of yeast product? (no, not marmite!) Anyone know what it might've been?
    •  
      CommentAuthorneil
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd, 2009 3:09pm (Aug 3rd 2009) edited
     

    Keeper of the hens

    Oh wow, was it in a massive wide brown plastic jar and it was sort of malted brown glop?

    I used to love that!!! :D I can't remember what it was called though.

    I think I was a bit of a strange child...
    •  
      CommentAuthorchief chicken
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd, 2009 6:30pm (Aug 3rd 2009)
     
    Virol.
    • CommentAuthornanny north
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd, 2009 7:50pm (Aug 3rd 2009)
     
    Yes thats the stuff CC we used to have that as well after the cod ugh liver oil Mum said it was to take the taste away but it never did for me. I never minded it and my brother used to love it and always used to try and get the biggest spoon full. It is a malt extract and supposed to be real good for you full of vitamins. Some kids at school used to have it at milk time as they were considered weedy and sickly. We also used to have that concentrated orange juice it was thick and had a peculiar taste, nothing like the orange juice of today.
    •  
      CommentAuthorchief chicken
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd, 2009 8:30pm (Aug 3rd 2009)
     
    Never seen it in real life, but i often see the earthenware vase-shaped pots in antiques fairs - lovely pieces!
    • CommentAuthornanny north
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd, 2009 8:53pm (Aug 3rd 2009)
     
    Extract of malt is a "Strengthening medicine" given by Kanga to Roo and Tigger in The House at Pooh Corner

    It is a sweet, treacly substance given to children as a dietary supplement.

    Supplements of this kind were popular in the first half of the twentieth century because it was widely believed that children didn't get enough vitamins and minerals in their diet. (Children were given cod liver oil for the same reason.)
    • CommentAuthornanny north
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd, 2009 9:05pm (Aug 3rd 2009)
     
    I know the pots you mean CC but ours used to be in the brown jars
      !BUN4ZHgBGk~$(KGrHgoH-DMEjlLltmFiBKMW,EzRFw~~_1.jpg
    • CommentAuthorvolka
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd, 2009 9:45pm (Aug 3rd 2009)
     
    You don't want to know the details but suffice to say it was voluminous, explosive, highly stinky and a colour I've never seen in any paint swatch. I now have one happy and relieved chicken!! :bigsmile:
    •  
      CommentAuthorKateb
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd, 2009 10:48pm (Aug 3rd 2009)
     
    I was a very skinny child - am still considered to be 'slim'! - and therefore it was assumed I was undernourished. I wasn't I can assure you - my nan could cook even if my mom couldn't!! It was in a big brown plastic jar like Neil said, but I'm sure it wasn't called Virol. It must've been a slightly different brand but it sounds like the same stuff. I hated it.
    •  
      CommentAuthorneil
    • CommentTimeAug 4th, 2009 11:28am (Aug 4th 2009) edited
     

    Keeper of the hens

    Haha! Yes Kate, Virol doesn't ring a bell with me but like you say sounds like the same stuff.

    I definitely wouldn't be given it now, I've got middle-age spread and the early onset of fat-knacker-itis :-(
    •  
      CommentAuthorJonny
    • CommentTimeAug 4th, 2009 12:40pm (Aug 4th 2009)
     
    Yeah Volka! Is she back to her old self? I can imagine the ickyness (sp?) - I mean its been at least a week - I would have thrown up!
    •  
      CommentAuthorRed
    • CommentTimeAug 4th, 2009 1:35pm (Aug 4th 2009) edited
     

    Keeper of the hens

    Posted By: volkaYou don't want to know the details but suffice to say it was voluminous, explosive, highly stinky and a colour I've never seen in any paint swatch. I now have one happy and relieved chicken!!<img src=" title=":bigsmile:" />

    That's great news :hurray:
    • CommentAuthorvolka
    • CommentTimeAug 4th, 2009 2:02pm (Aug 4th 2009)
     
    Jonny - she didn't throw up - it was via the all-purpose exit point!
    • CommentAuthornanny north
    • CommentTimeAug 4th, 2009 2:16pm (Aug 4th 2009)
     
    :steaming_poo: what a relief it must have been
    •  
      CommentAuthorneil
    • CommentTimeAug 4th, 2009 3:35pm (Aug 4th 2009)
     

    Keeper of the hens

    what goes in...
    •  
      CommentAuthorchief chicken
    • CommentTimeAug 4th, 2009 7:06pm (Aug 4th 2009)
     
    :toilet_wait:
    •  
      CommentAuthorJonny
    • CommentTimeAug 5th, 2009 1:34am (Aug 5th 2009) edited
     
    Posted By: volkaJonny - she didn't throw up - it was via the all-purpose exit point!


    I was actually talking about myself...either end would have made me v*&^*_t. I have MUCH experience in expelling]. Ewwwwwwww!
    • CommentAuthorvolka
    • CommentTimeAug 5th, 2009 8:51am (Aug 5th 2009)
     
    Aaaagh!! Having thought I had cleared her out, the little b*gg*r has gone and blocked herself up again. It feels like a bean bag in her crop this morning so assume that the corn she had yesterday tea time is sitting on top of what must have been left from the first blockage (obviously it didn't all pass out).

    Back to the State Pen for Rosie but is there any medication I can give her now - rather than the home remedies? Or should she go to the vet now?
    •  
      CommentAuthorneil
    • CommentTimeAug 5th, 2009 9:37am (Aug 5th 2009) edited
     

    Keeper of the hens

    I have to admit I have no experience of this, but couldn't it be back to normal now - food does sit in the crop as that's where it starts to get broken down by the grit that the hen naturally eats...

    Maybe give her a bit of time and check again..?

    Other than that, it's cider vinegar, live bio yoghurt or the vets I think.
    • CommentAuthorvolka
    • CommentTimeAug 5th, 2009 12:19pm (Aug 5th 2009) edited
     
    Well, Rosie enjoyed her trip to the vet this morning. She was diagnosed as "being on the verge" of sour crop - lots of smelly, green fluid in her crop which the vet expelled most of it by holding her like a bagpipe, tilting her forward and squeezing the crop gently so that the fluid could dribble out.

    For info, everyone - vet said it was perfectly safe to do this!

    She is now on antibiotics and laxatives and eggs are to be discarded for 28 days. Diet-wise, no grass for a couple of weeks, limited greens after that and a mixture of pellets and a little corn.

    Otherwise, expected to make a full recovery and I'm £38 lighter!!
    •  
      CommentAuthorRed
    • CommentTimeAug 5th, 2009 1:40pm (Aug 5th 2009) edited
     

    Keeper of the hens

    I'm glad Rosie's looking up, poor thing. Sounds like you have a good vet there, and i'm glad she is going to get better.

    Posted By: RedIt's tricky to do and can be dangerous unless done by a professional eg vet,


    It's fine for vets to expel the crop like that, and others if they know what they're doing.

    Did he say what had blocked her up?
    £30?! :gasp:

    At least the vet helped though. Once took Martha to a vets and the vet was scared of mice and had no idea what she was on about...and then charged £15 for a five minute appt. Brilliant :-\
    • CommentAuthorTrevs Mum
    • CommentTimeAug 5th, 2009 1:55pm (Aug 5th 2009)
     
    Volka wrote: holding her like a bagpipe, tilting her forward

    what a fabulous description Volka. I can just see it! Glad Rosie is getting better.
    •  
      CommentAuthorchief chicken
    • CommentTimeAug 5th, 2009 6:02pm (Aug 5th 2009)
     
    Can I recommend 'The Backyard Poultry Book' to everyone? Apart from distressing advice on 'culling' (:shocked:), it actually has some helpful advice on sick hens.
    •  
      CommentAuthorRed
    • CommentTimeAug 5th, 2009 7:28pm (Aug 5th 2009)
     

    Keeper of the hens

    I have that one :001_smile:
    •  
      CommentAuthorKateb
    • CommentTimeAug 5th, 2009 11:11pm (Aug 5th 2009)
     
    The vanillacon in your post looks like a little (surprised!) girl with pigtails CC!
    •  
      CommentAuthorchief chicken
    • CommentTimeAug 6th, 2009 7:45pm (Aug 6th 2009)
     
    (:shocked:) Really? (:shocked:)
    :D
    •  
      CommentAuthorRed
    • CommentTimeAug 6th, 2009 8:51pm (Aug 6th 2009)
     

    Keeper of the hens

    It looks like a spider to me :ack2:
    • CommentAuthornanny north
    • CommentTimeAug 6th, 2009 9:37pm (Aug 6th 2009)
     
    well spotted kate looks like a kiddie who lives in the next street to me with little round glasses and pigtails thats well uncanny.
    •  
      CommentAuthorKateb
    • CommentTimeAug 6th, 2009 10:37pm (Aug 6th 2009)
     
    Poor child!
    • CommentAuthorvolka
    • CommentTimeAug 7th, 2009 11:33am (Aug 7th 2009)
     
    The medicine Rosie's on is basically softening everything up in there so her crop is like a water balloon. She is poo-ing fairly normally but her crop was quite squidgy again this morning so I had a go at emptying it.

    It was really easy if you do it nice and gently. The vet was right, done carefully, there is no danger to the chicken.

    Firstly, I wrapped her in a warm towel (not planned, it had just come out the airing cupboard), tucked her under my arm resting on my hip. I leant against the wall for support and leaned forward until Rosie was at about 45deg angle pointing at the floor.

    Then I gently massaged her crop. When I saw her beak open, I stopped on the "squeeze" (as opposed to releasing the crop) and held it, and the gunk just poured out. Rosie seemed quite relaxed as if she knew she just had to keep her mouth open until it was finished. She seemed happy enough with a strawberry as a reward for being good and was merrily scratching around the empty veg bed an hour later.

    Hope this helps for anyone with the same problem in the future!

    Vx
    • CommentAuthorStuart
    • CommentTimeAug 7th, 2009 1:10pm (Aug 7th 2009)
     
    This was a procedure my ganddad used to use quite often, his allotment had a lot of ryegrass, very long and not easy to break, having given them cod liver oil too, He said "If zer is anthink schtuck it vill muv it." He was Dutch, came over before the war and bred Barnvelder and Welsomer breeds, said it made him feel like he was at home, in Barnvelde where he came from.
    • CommentAuthorvolka
    • CommentTimeAug 7th, 2009 3:32pm (Aug 7th 2009)
     
    My dad was from Eindhoven - he remembers the Allies rolling in.
    • CommentAuthornanny north
    • CommentTimeAug 7th, 2009 8:42pm (Aug 7th 2009)
     
    My friend Johan was born in Eindhoven. I have been there once but it was a few years ago
    •  
      CommentAuthorJonny
    • CommentTimeAug 8th, 2009 10:24pm (Aug 8th 2009)
     
    Posted By: volkaholding her like a bagpipe,


    When I first read that I thought it said "holding her by the bagpipe". ???!?!?!?...

    Took me a while....
    •  
      CommentAuthorchief chicken
    • CommentTimeAug 9th, 2009 5:56pm (Aug 9th 2009)
     
    These technical terms, eh, Jonny? :)
    • CommentAuthornanny north
    • CommentTimeAug 9th, 2009 9:25pm (Aug 9th 2009)
     
    Ha ha ha oh Jonny that is so funny
    • CommentAuthorvolka
    • CommentTimeAug 10th, 2009 12:16pm (Aug 10th 2009)
     
    she makes the same noise as a bagpipe when you squeeze her!!
    (just joking, i love my chickens)
    •  
      CommentAuthorchief chicken
    • CommentTimeAug 10th, 2009 4:31pm (Aug 10th 2009)
     
    Can you play 'Scotland The Brave'...?:tooth:
    Aw, dinnae fret, hen!
    • CommentAuthornanny north
    • CommentTimeAug 10th, 2009 8:53pm (Aug 10th 2009)
     
    Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha..... now all my cats have run up stairs thinking I have gone mad at last cos I keep laughing out loud and Grandad North is frowning and giving me hard stares cos he is trying to watch the gadget show...... ha ha ha.
    •  
      CommentAuthorchief chicken
    • CommentTimeAug 11th, 2009 4:53pm (Aug 11th 2009)
     
    When cats lick their bits, sticking one leg up in the air, my grandad used to say they were playing the bagpipes...
    • CommentAuthornanny north
    • CommentTimeAug 11th, 2009 7:41pm (Aug 11th 2009)
     
    My Dad always used to say "Cats playing it's banjo again" and when a dog rubs it bum along the ground us kids used to call it ar.se skiing !!!!!
    •  
      CommentAuthorDianeonWhidbey
    • CommentTimeAug 11th, 2009 9:58pm (Aug 11th 2009)
     
    Posted By: chief chickenWhen cats lick their bits, sticking one leg up in the air, my grandad used to say they were playing the bagpipes...
    Martin just said: Cats in Britain do that too? I like them! Maybe I'll come visit.
    • CommentAuthorvolka
    • CommentTimeAug 18th, 2009 4:15pm (Aug 18th 2009)
     
    Hmmm, I don't know. Rosie is in the peak of health, eating well, being bossy, very chatty, running around, not laying yet but wattle and comb getting back to normal red and plump status but her crop is still saggy and bulges out on the left hand side.

    Had a go at clearing her out again but it's normal colour and doesn't smell so she's not bunged up again.

    Oh well, she'll be just like her "mum" then - one boob bigger than the other!! :bigsmile:
    • CommentAuthorTracyB
    • CommentTimeAug 18th, 2009 4:40pm (Aug 18th 2009)
     
    thanks for sharing that little gem with us Volka.
    •  
      CommentAuthorchief chicken
    • CommentTimeAug 18th, 2009 7:29pm (Aug 18th 2009)
     
    T.M.I...:gasp:
    • CommentAuthorvolka
    • CommentTimeAug 18th, 2009 9:06pm (Aug 18th 2009)
     
    oh come on, a little anatomy makes you queasy?! how many times is the word "poo" mentioned on this forum? LOL
    •  
      CommentAuthorchief chicken
    • CommentTimeAug 18th, 2009 9:18pm (Aug 18th 2009)
     
    Well that's Diane's fault....:rolling:
    •  
      CommentAuthorchief chicken
    • CommentTimeAug 18th, 2009 9:20pm (Aug 18th 2009)
     
    So are you MR Volka or Mrs? I don't think I've ever worked it out...but then I'm dim...
    • CommentAuthorvolka
    • CommentTimeAug 19th, 2009 10:25am (Aug 19th 2009)
     
    Mrs - definitely!
    • CommentAuthorStuart
    • CommentTimeAug 20th, 2009 12:27am (Aug 20th 2009)
     
    My chooks have saggy bulges to one side depending on how they stand, but I suppose half a pound of grit and pellets won't sit straight anyway, gravity and all.
    • CommentAuthorvolka
    • CommentTimeAug 20th, 2009 12:11pm (Aug 20th 2009)
     
    Hoorah - whatever it was in Rosie's crop has gone. This morning it was nice and empty and not full of squishy-ness. Seriously, Stuart, this was not just a greedy hen bulge - at one point her left breast was nearly touching the floor when she was standing up.

    She can join the rest of the gang in 10 days.
    • CommentAuthorTrevs Mum
    • CommentTimeAug 20th, 2009 12:15pm (Aug 20th 2009)
     
    good news Volka, success!
    • CommentAuthornanny north
    • CommentTimeAug 20th, 2009 12:40pm (Aug 20th 2009)
     
    Well done Volka and Rosie what a fab result I am so pleased fpr you both.
    •  
      CommentAuthorRed
    • CommentTimeAug 20th, 2009 4:04pm (Aug 20th 2009)
     

    Keeper of the hens

    I'm really pleased to hear that volka ^__^
    •  
      CommentAuthorchief chicken
    • CommentTimeAug 20th, 2009 5:12pm (Aug 20th 2009) edited
     
    Posted By: volkaat one point her left breast was nearly touching the floor when she was standing up.

    Decent bra ought to sort that out...worked for me...:tooth:
    So glad she's feeling better, Volka...such a relief for you.:heart: